Another "ex Muslim" bites the dust

[Jamal]

This is pretty funny. Too bad. Eurgen Caner seems to be a celebrity among the wanna believe American mystic Christian crowd. The enrollment at Liberty University tripled since he arrived five years ago. I guess keeping a crook on for a few years has its benefits. Believe me, Eurgen Caner will still be a celebrity among certain people. His story evokes "God's truth," even though it conflicts with reality.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/201 ... -51.0.html

http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/

http://www.fakeexmuslims.com/biographyoferguncaner.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/walid-zaf ... 82225.html

[grahame]

Seems to me that he is trying to make his conversion to Christianity to be more dramatic than it actually was.

[Jamal]

Seems to me that he is trying to make his conversion to Christianity to be more dramatic than it actually was.

Do they have things like this in the UK? It seems like the British are less likely to be deceived than other Europeans and Americans who come from European backgrounds. In a lot of ways they're downright paranoid, as all the spying and surveillance on people in the UK seems to bear out. I wonder if being an Island nation has instilled skepticism into the culture, always being invaded and such.

What would King Arthur say? He appears to have resided in Chester.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... Table.html

Ronald Reagan seems to have spent some time there.

r1.jpg (135.01 KiB) Viewed 88 times

r2.jpg (145.33 KiB) Viewed 85 times

[grahame]

I suppose there are a few paranoid folk. But on the whole people and politicians and religious groups in general seem to want to work together for peace in the community. Also we have laws against religious and racial harrassment. Not saying wveything is rosy in the garden there is still a lot of religious and racial tension on all sides and of course there are always the extremists on all sides which like to take advantage of bad situations. But whereas America until quite recently had been openly racial and now you get people writing things openly against Muslims. It would be frowned upon in Britain and pounced upon by the authorities and the instigators would even risk arrest and imprisonment for being openly abusive towards Muslims. Most Muslims in Britain are fairly moderate and just want to get on with their lives like everyone else, surprise surprise. I would even go as far as to say that the few Muslim MP's that we have are a good influence on the community and appear to show equity and common sense.

[ootii]

I suppose there are a few paranoid folk. But on the whole people and politicians and religious groups in general seem to want to work together for peace in the community. Also we have laws against religious and racial harrassment. Not saying wveything is rosy in the garden there is still a lot of religious and racial tension on all sides and of course there are always the extremists on all sides which like to take advantage of bad situations. But whereas America until quite recently had been openly racial and now you get people writing things openly against Muslims. It would be frowned upon in Britain and pounced upon by the authorities and the instigators would even risk arrest and imprisonment for being openly abusive towards Muslims. Most Muslims in Britain are fairly moderate and just want to get on with their lives like everyone else, surprise surprise. I would even go as far as to say that the few Muslim MP's that we have are a good influence on the community and appear to show equity and common sense.

I'm not sure about this Grahame. The EDL seems to be tolerated in ways that would not be possible in the US. Both British and US political systems are founded in a firm commitment to institutions which are, in turn, governed by clear law. Americans, however, seem to take protection of minorities a little more seriously and "foreigners" are accepted as Americans as soon as they are naturalized and not be regarded as perpetual "aliens," as happens to immigrants in many European countries.

The key to building a country of immigrants is to include them, not to assimilate them.

Salaam,

Omar

[grahame]

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Strange thing for a country to do though don't you think? To accept foreigners as citizens whilst being openly racist against its native citizens. Which is what happened during the 60's. I know also that many Americans are against Obama, not because of his policies, but because he's black and that this is tolerated openly. I'm not sure what you mean by "assimilate"? The people whom I know that are Muslims are certainly not treated as perpetual aliens. They work and live in the community and mix and work togather quite well. I know that in some places they are treated like that and many seem to not want to mix, but rather refer to their original homeland as "they country". "in my country this " and "my country that". etc But on the whole communities seem to work quite well together. Also I think that of all the European countries Britain is the least racial. For example when Hamilton the Formular One racing driver went to the Spanish GRAND Prix there were a lot of racial taunts at him and the authorities did nothing. If it happened in Britain most people would be shocked and the law would become involved under ther racial hatred law.

[ootii]

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated. Strange thing for a country to do though don't you think? To accept foreigners as citizens whilst being openly racist against its native citizens. Which is what happened during the 60's. I know also that many Americans are against Obama, not because of his policies, but because he's black and that this is tolerated openly. I'm not sure what you mean by "assimilate"? The people whom I know that are Muslims are certainly not treated as perpetual aliens. They work and live in the community and mix and work togather quite well. I know that in some places they are treated like that and many seem to not want to mix, but rather refer to their original homeland as "they country". "in my country this " and "my country that". etc But on the whole communities seem to work quite well together. Also I think that of all the European countries Britain is the least racial. For example when Hamilton the Formular One racing driver went to the Spanish GRAND Prix there were a lot of racial taunts at him and the authorities did nothing. If it happened in Britain most people would be shocked and the law would become involved under ther racial hatred law.

You're right, Grahame, that the British are less obsessed about race than many other Westerners, including Americans. I remember seeing bi-racial couples in Britain in the early 80's when this was still extremely rare in the US.

When I said assimilation I meant an insistence that immigrants adopt the dominant culture and abandon their own heritage. Such demands are essentially xenophobic. In time, all immigrants contribute to an evolving national culture. There is more anxiety about immigration in societies that are ruled by racial and cultural elites. This includes most of continental Europe, Israel, and Saudi Arabia, for example. In more democratic and participatory cultures, the primary concern seems to be that immigrants will participate and contribute, not that they should "fit in,""know their place" and not challenge the status quo.

America has come a long way in the last 50 years and while there are still racists here they are no longer anywhere near the center of public policy or culture. Charles Manson's delusional visions never materialized. Few people today would even recognize his name unless they accidentally stumble across him in the Guiness Book of World Records, chapter - criminally insane.

Salaam,

Omar

[grahame]

When I said assimilation I meant an insistence that immigrants adopt the dominant culture and abandon their own heritage. Such demands are essentially xenophobic. In time, all immigrants contribute to an evolving national culture.

I personally am fascinated by the cultures of people from other countries. This is part of their identities. I think Britain has been more interesting since many from Asia and middle eastern countries have chosen to make it their home. All new kinds of foods that the supermarkets didn't stock before. I would not like to see people change their culture.
People who demand such things cannot remember when the British went to places like India and Africa and the middle east. They expected the people in these places to behave like the British and the British certainly did not change their culture or way of life right down to insisting having roast beef and yorkshire pudding followed by treacle sponge and custard in the burning heat of places like India.

I expect people to uphold the law of the country they are living in. But not to change their culture. I was going to say providing that the law is reasonable. But that would be controversial and debatable. Suffice me to say that no law should force any kind of religion upon anyone. But that everyone should not only be free to practice their religion, but also should be free to evangelise. By evangelise I don't mean target certain communities that we may think "needs" our religion. But rather open evangelising like public places such as malls and market places.

Opposition may come from some strange areas. My friend was standing on the steps of Truro Cathedral (a church of England cathedral) preaching and giving out tracts to those who passed. The wardens came out from the church and told them to move or they would call the police. Now that was from people whom you would expect would be in agreance with them. But no they were told to move.

For that very reason I would prefer a secular government than any kind of religious government. At least with the Romans the apostle knew who they were dealing with. The persecution came from the religious people most of the time. Not from the Roman authorities in the early years. This way all citizens will come under the protection of the law....hopefully.